159. The Space Between Fear & Action | Michelle “Mace” Curran

At 500 knots each, two F-16s point straight at each other with less than a second to react, one of them upside down. That's the moment Michelle "Mace" Curran walks Dwayne through in Part 2 of this conversation, and it's just the entry point into a masterclass on what she calls "the space between": the pause between feeling fear and deciding what to do with it.

In this episode:

• The near head-on collision during a Thunderbirds training pass, closing at roughly 1,000 mph, missing by what she believes was inches and the split-second decision-making that got both pilots through it
• Why Michelle earned her call sign "Mace" (Mach at Circle Entry) by accidentally breaking the sound barrier on her second flight in Japan, and how she turned it into a badge of honor
• The physical disruptor, wiggling her toes, that a flight instructor taught her to break out of over-control and hypervigilance, and the neuroscience behind why it works
• Why the Thunderbirds' hiring process (40 applicants, 3 spots, a 12-officer interview panel) weighs personality, composure, and preparation over raw technical skill
• Her "bubble" routine in her third year with the Thunderbirds, strict self-care boundaries that helped her show up better in a public-facing role
• Why she sees fear as a signal, not a stop sign, and how that reframe applies as much to a hard business call as it does to flying a fighter jet

Time Stamps:

00:00 Competence Over Noise

00:33 Welcome Michelle “Mace” Curran

01:32 Imposter Syndrome Pivot

02:53 Bravery And Fear Reframed

07:20 The Space Between

12:03 Near Miss Decision Making

14:54 Physical Disruptors Tool

21:56 Fear Signals In The Body

23:29 High Performance Discipline

29:01 Hiring For Team Traits

33:39 Thunderbirds Selection Process

36:20 Prep Under Pressure

37:13 Working Interview Signals

38:32 Downtime Reveals Drive

39:31 Bias and Perception Checks

41:15 Women in Fighter Aviation

47:13 Media Noise and Unity

50:58 Leading for Bigger Impact

54:56 Self Care for Performance

59:06 Where to Find Michelle

01:00:09 Call Sign and Failure Lessons

01:04:19 Final Thanks

Michelle "Mace" Curran is a former U.S. Air Force fighter pilot who flew as a Thunderbirds lead solo and trained the incoming opposing solo pilot during her tenure on the team. Over a 13-year military career she flew combat missions and instrument approaches in extreme conditions, including a station in Misawa, Japan. She is now a keynote speaker and author of the children's book Upside Down Dreams and its sequel centered on fighter pilot call signs, and has written a book exploring fear and decision-making under pressure. She also runs corporate workshops and speaks widely on high performance, fear, and leadership.

Connect with Michelle

Website: https://macecurran.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mace_curran

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/macecurran/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/macecurran/

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Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.