158. Fighter Pilot to Founder | Michelle "Mace" Curran
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RSS Feed She's the second woman in history to fly lead solo for the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds and she still describes her early years in a fighter squadron as "classic imposter syndrome." Michelle "Mace" Curran spent years running from failure before she realized what was actually driving her forward, and in this conversation with Dwayne Kerrigan, she pulls back the curtain on the debrief culture that rebuilt her confidence — and the messy, control-freak transition from single-seat cockpit to solo entrepreneur.
In this episode:
- How a moment in the bookstore at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum led, four years later, to Michelle's children's book What's Your Call Sign?
- Why Michelle calls her first Air Force assignment "classic imposter syndrome" — and how she learned to tell the difference between being pulled toward a goal and running from failure
- Inside the Air Force flight debrief: how "root cause" and a single "lesson learned" sentence turn every flight — successful or not — into a team-wide teaching moment
- What changed when Michelle transferred to a reserve squadron in Texas right after it had debriefed a near-catastrophic mishap
- Why leaving the military for entrepreneurship exposed her as, in her words, "a control freak," and what she's doing to build a real team instead of running her business like a one-person cockpit
- How hitting the USA Today bestseller list with her book The Flip Side actually coincided with a dip in speaking bookings — and the lesson she took from it
Time Stamps:
00:00 Imposter Syndrome
00:24 Welcome
00:55 Meet Michelle “Mace” Curran
02:39 Why Kids Books
05:24 From Wisconsin To Jets
06:53 Advice For Parents
09:10 Pull Versus Push
14:48 Japan Pressure Cooker
18:39 Reputation And Legacy
21:25 Finding Your Team Role
23:35 Learning From Mishaps
26:32 Fighter Pilot Debriefs
31:32 Debrief Cadence Matters
32:40 Feedback Without Fear
34:36 Stacking the Odds
36:17 Solo Entrepreneur Shock
39:17 Delegation and Control
43:56 Trust Systems Not People
48:45 Building SOPs and CRM
52:17 Book Launch Reality Check
56:30 Entrepreneurship Fear and Freedom
58:49 Closing and Listener Takeaways
Michelle "Mace" Curran is a former U.S. Air Force F-16 fighter who flew as the fifth woman and second woman ever to fly lead solo with the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds. She left active duty in 2022 after 13 years of service and founded Upside Down Dreams, a speaking, training, and education company. She is the author of three books, including the national bestseller The Flip Side, along with two children's books, Upside Down Dreams and What's Your Call Sign?
Resources mentioned:
- The Flip Side (book)
- Upside Down Dreams (children's book)
- What's Your Call Sign? (children's book)
Follow The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast for Part 2 of this conversation, and find more from Michelle "Mace" Curran.
Connect with Michelle
Website: https://macecurran.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mace_curran
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/macecurran/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/macecurran/
Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan
Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.
